Group hikes with newbies

[Game Warden]

I will be taking two non-hiker brothers and their two teen sons on a mild flatlands hike, two nights,  this summer. I am wondering--should we camp and eat as a group, with the gear divided among us, or break down into teams of dad & son? Should I be the guide, who organizes everything, or just the uncle along for the walk? I know I have far more experience and knowledge than my four companions; if they would just follow my instructions and let me call the shots, they would have a good, safe first hike. But I don't want to be an overbearing know-it-all a-hole. Any thoughts on the subject would be appreciated. 

[balzaccom]

Seems like this is not a question you can decide alone.  It's something you should discuss with the group, offering suggestions and options, and letting them participate in the decision process.  That's just good people management.

There are real advantages of sharing the load by dividing up some of the equipment (not everybody needs to bring a stove, etc) as long as you all agree that you will stay together and hike together.  If you don't stay together, then whoever doesn't have the stove is going to be hungry at dinner time if there is some problem reconnecting.

And what kinds of shots do you want to call?  When and where to camp?  I wouldn't let you "call that shot" if I were hiking with you---because I might get tired before you do, or want to fish more, etc.  Those kinds of decisions should be made in council...

[PaulGS]

My suggestion is that since they have no experience hiking or backpacking, they can only participate in decisions that are not safety related. 

Newbies can behave a bit recklessly in the wild (near water, around fires, in regards to wildlife) and having someone (that’s you ) to rein them in if necessary is a good thing. 

[Grey Mouse]

I have often taken newbies with me hiking. I have found that most times they want me to take charge and plan everything so I do so but allow options for different routes and campsites since the planned sites are sometimes occupied when we get there. Those newbies that are becoming regulars are included into the planning if they want to be. A fun way to do the meals is to offer a suggestion of each "team" to cook their own breakfast and lunch to allow bonding/family time and either cook separately  at one time around the campfire at supper or as one unit for a shared meal. This allows everyone to share in a taste testing of different meals if cooked separately at the same time. I would strongly suggest teaching everyone to cook in one spot if in bear country. This will also allow each team to use different methods of cooking and expose them to several ways at once possibly such as alcohol burners, canister stoves, campfire, etc styles of meal prepping and cooking. Cooking together at one time on the first night will also let you emphasize the importance of hanging your food before dark if needed.

I have also learned that by allowing everyone to pair up separately for sleeping allows a chance to go around and offer suggestions in order to aid in tent/hammock site selection, proper techniques with new or unfamiliar gear, and such. This is also a great time to explain why you cook, eat, and sleep at different spots in bear country and thus where your campsites/bedding areas should be located.  

Listen to your group on the hike and if they are tired take a break. If they are really tired have a shorter campsite in mind. Many times they will see a waterfall or view and want to stay there or somewhere similar so have that as an alternate plan.

Often the best approach is to start with "We can..." and lead into "Then we will..." type of conversations. You can express the unity of the group by mustering before, before breaking camp, and after the hike to ensure that no gear (or trash) was forgotten. People do forget sleeping bags and other items . Designate a trash person ahead of time if needed or make everyone responsible for their own. Six to eight people can generate a lot of trash especially if a newbie brings cans.

[rickrick]

I just got off such a hike with family a sister a niece and nieces BF who was actually the only newbie.I did set the plan for days on the trail and where we would camp but then went over that plan with everyone well in advance. Everyone knew up front how many miles we would go each day and what climbs were to be made (mountain hike), but in the plan I made sure that only one strenuous climb would be made each day.  We carried two stoves and everyone carried a bear can with their own meals. We slept two to a tent to distribute the weight. Once on the trail everything became a community discussion and decision. It all worked out really well with everyone knowing upfront each days and each nights expectations before the trip began. Above all you must be flexible on the trail. We did encounter a situation where the campsite which we intended to use the second night out was no longer there which led to the group agreement to push on two additional miles to the next known AT shelter. Made for a tough second day but shortened the last days hike back to civilization.

[ppine]

Good questions. I have led a lot river running trips in the last 50 years. I have not taken newbies on backpacking trips for many years. 

Some people have so much ego, they can't admit that are rookies.  Some of them refuse to follow even a strong leader.  Some people especially women and younger people are great at following and learn quickly.  I would have some hesitation about Dad's that want to look good in front of their kids. 

You need to sit down with the group and get on the same page.  It might be best to car camp with them first or do a one night trip to see what you have. 

I took a friend and his wife on a one night bping trip.  They wanted to be the guests and wanted me to be the guide.  I was supposed to do everything for them.  Glad it was only one night. 

I had an old friend on a week long river trip.  We used to backpack together in college.  We had long talks about the fact that he was part of the team.  He said okay but on the river he wanted to be a guest.  I said okay, but I will have to charge you $250 a day. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by ppine

[PaulGS]

On 8/30/2018 at 12:05 PM, ppine said:

Some people have so much ego, they can't admit that are rookies.  Some of them refuse to follow even a strong leader.  Some people especially women and younger people are great at following and learn quickly.

That's been similar to my experience. Young people and women cooperate and listen better, but the men? Not so much. They tend to want to run the show. Nowadays, if someone wants me to go backpacking with them, I ask a lot more questions first and lay down more ground rules.

Edited September 6, 2018 by PaulGS

[ppine]

I have found as people age, it easier for them to get out of their comfort range.  I am 68 and still backpacking and running rivers.  Some people in my age group do not want to "look bad."  They get very defensive and emotional at unexpected times.  Close friends are easy to level with.  Some new friends and acquaintences are harder to deal with. 

I like smaller trips now, often with 4 or less.  There is some risk in inviting new people I don't know well.  There is a lot less drama with proven outdoor partners.  

[ppine]

For old farts stuck in their habits, I find it is best for everyone except couples to have their own tent.  It provides some separation.

For backpacking we tend to fix our own meals, because styles can be so different.  I only bring food from grocery stores for instance. 

For week long river trips, we usually take turns making dinner for the group.  Some people cook twice, some only once.  For lay over days we have couple of big breakfast meals like pancakse and bacon or Mexican egg tacos.  The rest of the time people are on their own for breakfast and lunch.   We have large coolers and make some reallyl great meals on river trips.  We usually bring a Dutch oven.  I baked a cake for my 65th birthday on a great river in Oregon.  One of the best trips of a lifetime.